For twenty-five years, Martin Nathan has pursued restless experimentation under the moniker Brain Damage, establishing himself as one of France's more interesting ‘bass-rooted’ multi-instrumentalists while refusing to remain tethered to a sonic template. With seventeen albums and nearly nine hundred concerts behind him, Nathan has consistently shed audiences with each creative pivot—a calculated risk that has preserved his artistic autonomy and kept predictability at bay. His latest venture, Oide Oide, pushes this philosophy to its logical extreme, attempting to adopt an unexplored genre he terms "post-dub."
The album represents a collaboration with Japanese multidisciplinary artist Emiko Ota, whose background spans Osaka's underground rock scene, traditional gagaku music, and various experimental projects that have appeared on labels like Captured Tracks. Together, they have constructed a sonic exploration of Japanese yōkai—supernatural creatures from folklore that embody everything from deceptive beauty to restless anxiety. Ota selected five of these mythological beings to match Nathan's musical atmospheres: Katsura Otoko, whose lunar beauty proves fatal to admirers; Tenome, the blind hunter with eyes in his palms; Isogashi, the perpetually frantic "Mr. Busy"; Azuki Arai, who lures victims into water with his bean-washing sounds; and Baku, the dream-eating chimera who guards human sleep.
Nathan's vision for this project required abandoning the reggae rhythms and Rastafarian spirituality that typically anchor dub music. Instead, he employed traditional instruments, including what he playfully describes as "toys,” to reveal original compositions that channel influences as disparate as The Clash's sprawling Sandinista! and Throbbing Gristle's industrial provocations. The album's structure reflects this conceptual duality: five original tracks that Nathan spent months perfecting, followed by five dub transformations created by the legendary Mad Professor in a single studio session. It’s a contrast between methodical construction and intuitive feeling that maintains dub's spatial techniques while recontextualizing its cultural DNA.
In this interview, Nathan discusses the personal loss that precipitated this artistic rupture, the collaborative process of translating Japanese folklore into experimental music, and his commitment to breaking the codes of established genres. He also reflects on his relationship with cultural appropriation, the role of playfulness in serious artistic work, and why he continues to surprise himself after a quarter-century of musical disruption.
Michael Donaldson: You've described this new album as 'post dub'…
Martin Nathan: Post-dub! It's an intriguing term, isn't it? For me, it's about evolving dub in a different way, with a certain ethic, according to my own living and working conditions, and my own culture, without imitating anyone else's.
I'm not Jamaican, and I reject cultural appropriation, which I see as a form of neo-colonialism. I don't use sampling either. I try to work directly with artists, meet them, credit them, and pay them fairly.
The label 'post-dub' fits this new project particularly well because this time, Emiko and I have allowed ourselves to break completely free from the Jamaican legacy. That said, I did ask Mad Professor to create some versions using his own methods, rooted in traditional dub. On stage, it will be my work.
However, in the end, this concept I’ve been developing over the years doesn’t differ from my previous work, which began in 1999; it actually encompasses it. It's just that I now feel ready to speak about it, and I have the sense that I'm taking it even further.
Under the label of 'post-dub,' which might seem restrictive, I believe I can explore an incredible range of directions while staying true to my principles.
Michael: Your comment about wanting to "break completely free from the Jamaican legacy" is provocative, right? After 25 years of working within and around this tradition, what prompted this desire to break apart those roots at this particular moment?
Martin: What defines a new project, an album, or a tour for me always begins with a meeting and an idea.
I was a close friend for 25 years with Samuel Clayton Jr., the son of Samuel Clayton, who was part of Mystic Revelation of Rastafari. He was the person to know. He made things easier for me by introducing me to many artists with whom I could collaborate, especially in Jamaica, although not only there. He taught me so much, and we shared some wonderful moments on the island, a place I probably would have never visited without him. How could I ever forget the legendary sessions we did at Harry J Studio with Horace Andy, Ras Michael, Willi Williams, Kiddus I, and others?
In 2020, we went back to Jamaica to record the album with Big Youth. We both caught COVID on the plane. He died in Kingston. I came back alone. The rest is easy to understand. I can't imagine going back to Jamaica without him.
Since then, I've wrapped up the projects that were already underway: two albums, one released in 2021 and another in 2023. But now, I must admit, something's broken. It's time to change direction once again. I'm keeping only the techniques and core principles of dub but applying them to a different kind of music, especially in live performance. And that's still endlessly fascinating to me. Thus, post-dub.
Michael: Japanese yōkai mythology also forms the backbone of this album. What drew you to these supernatural creatures, and what was it like to bring their distinct characteristics into music?
Martin: Naturally, since Emiko is Japanese, she was the one who brought that theme to the project. I offered her five different musical atmospheres, and she selected a yokai that matched each one from among the hundreds that exist. That's how it worked.
I didn't know much about that mythology before talking to her. And that's exactly what interests me in this kind of project and collaboration: I come in with the naivety of someone who doesn't know, and by the end of the project, I've learned so much!
It happened the same way in Jamaica, in Colombia, and elsewhere—discovering cultures that are not my own. Or even concepts: one of my albums is entirely dedicated to the condition of colonial soldiers from the French and British empires during the First World War.
The people I work with teach me things. It's always enriching and fascinating.
Michael: How did Emiko Ota’s multidisciplinary background, which goes from underground rock to traditional Japanese music, influence your compositional choices?
Martin: Given Emiko's background, I knew I could bring her in on any of my creative whims. I was planning to do something truly unconventional musically, and she was the first person who came to mind because of her incredible adaptability. They call her the chameleon musician!
Emiko is remarkable. She has several vocal registers and is full of ideas and spontaneity. On top of that, Franco-Japanese collaborations are still quite rare, which makes them all the more interesting.
Michael: You’ve mentioned using 'toys' among the instruments on Oide Oide. What role does playfulness serve in your creative process?
Martin: Everything I do has to remain playful and mischievous. The day I lose that, it's over, for any project.
The playful side takes on a whole new dimension on stage, where improvisation is ever-present. And there's a lot of risk-taking too, because even though I work with machines, I'm the one controlling them, but I can lose that control at any moment. That's the game!
Michael: When composing the original tracks for the album, did you already have specific ideas about how Mad Professor might transform them, or was the intention to provide him maximum freedom? How did he get involved?
Martin: At first, I had the idea of offering this project to Emiko. But at the same time, I wanted to develop the concept of post-dub: in this case, creating a different kind of music using dub techniques.
I created the original versions while imagining what Mad Professor's takes on them might be, yes. I reached out to him, knowing that he, too, is highly adaptable and can quickly bring his own vision to a project. He brings an undeniable dub dimension and legitimacy to it. On stage, I take charge, through long versions, mixed, remixed, improvised...
Michael: The creative process for this album involved you spending months on the original tracks, while Mad Professor completed his dub versions in a single studio session. I know you’ve mentioned appreciating that he does "the opposite of what I do."
Martin: That's the strength of collaboration! If everyone has the same skills, it's less interesting to me. I always surround myself with people who can do things I can't. That way, we go further, and once again, I learn and get inspired.
The first part of the album is the work of a craftsman, meticulous and methodical. The second part is all about feeling... and 45 years of experience! It's fascinating to compare the two approaches. That contrast is also what makes the project so rich.
Michael: The Clash's Sandinista! and Throbbing Gristle are your reference points for this album. How did you incorporate these influences into Oide Oide?
Martin: I followed the idea of breaking your own toys! Of surprising people! Of trying new things! Embracing diversity! Taking risks! Doing something unheard of for the time! Shaking up the scene you're part of! Never standing still!
I could name so many other examples of artistic breakaways that have marked history, works that first confused people, then fascinated and deeply influenced so many others.
Michael: You've embraced continual reinvention while maintaining certain signatures. Looking at this album within your broader discography, do you see it as an evolution or more of a decisive break?
Martin: Each of my projects is a rupture. People sometimes criticize me for it, and I might lose part of my audience with every release. Then they come back. Or not. Others praise me for my boldness. It's obviously very difficult. The price of my longevity is very high, but it's also the cost of my complete freedom.
I can only be sincere in what I create. You may like it or not, but you can't question my sincerity. Otherwise, I'd go about it differently. To me, every one of my albums is a debut album, and therefore, inevitably decisive.
Michael: After this exploration of Japanese mythology through a post-dub lens, where do you see your next ‘debut album’ landing?
Martin: No limits, no boundaries! I love the idea of surprising myself first and foremost. Anything can happen. There are so many things I want to try. Life is short. I won't have time to do everything. I want to surprise everyone with my choices. But above all, surprise myself... and the algorithms!
Michael: OK, then! What's something you love that more people should know about?
Martin: For Westerners, everything related to yōkai is still largely unknown, which is a shame. The little I've been able to discover seems magnificent and very profound.
Check out more like this:
Chaz Underriner
Lawrence Peryer
Comments